Which one is good?
Posted: 15 July 2007 08:27 PM  [Ignore]
Flotsam (Treibgut)
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Hello Everybody,
I am a rookie to U/W pics since I have never taken an U/W pic before.  I didn’t even know that housings existed(so you can tell the level of rookie I am).  I currently have the Sony DSC S500 which ofcourse does not have an U/W housing made for it.  I have studied this forum and still can not find the info I am looking for so here goes:

I need a camera that is good both dry and wet and also that has a good housing for it and is copact.  I can’t see myself buying a strobe but the posibilty of adding one never hurts.  I will use it just as much dry as in the water.  I am more of a point and click type of person right now but plan to learn alot more so ease of use and learning is a factor.  I got my current camera in December.  I really still do not know how to use it that well and have decided that if I will be getting another camera, why learn this one since I plan to sell it? 

I like the Sony DSC W200- its a 12 Megapixel compared to the 6 Megapixel that I am currently happy with.  What do you experts think? Any Pros and Cons?  I have a limited budget but I may be able to stretch to this camera.

Since I am very naive in this subject, any other cameras that I should look into? Like I said, I don’t know much so at this time I do not have a preference.  I would really appreciate all of your feedback.

Also the whole RAW processing, I can’t even really understand what it is so it may not be a factor for me.  Should it be a factor for me?

Thanks you very much.  I have read this forum through and through and have found out the most important thing(I hope), I don’t really know much about cameras. 

Any Florida Keys divers out there?  I’m getting back into the sport and would love to get together with some fellow divers.

Once again, thank you very much for all of your help,

Jsceen (the foto Rook)


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Posted: 16 July 2007 10:49 PM  [Ignore]  [ # 1]
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Napoleon Wrasse
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Hej Jsceen and welcome to this great forum.

With the level of photography you are describing
you really should take up to consideration if
you really need 12mpix.
Du you offen’t want to make copies in the
size 5by3 feet...or bigger?

I don’t personally have any experience with
compact cameras. But what i see is that most
cameras from Nikon Canon Sony and Olympus
are pretty good today. and most of em can
be fitted with a good housing.

Find one that’s easy to use compered to
you’re camera skills and off-cause take a
good look at what house to get.
Make sure you can get a strobe for
it. Just in case you decide to upgrade.

Also make sure you can get thing’s
like closeup lens and macro lens.

And one thing more. take a good
look at battery life.
I use Canon 350D and can only have
one batt. in the camera when diving.
Canon’s batt. are sorry to say just
not that good.

(since you are planing to learn more
on the camera side. The option off using
RAW is not a bad thing. But you CAN take
good pictures without it.
RAW is a file type that contains more information
than ex. Jpeg. so you will have more options
when it come’s to editing. Also they will
fill up your memory card faster.

Kenneth


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I’m narked what’s your excuse

EOS 350D/Nimar house. EOS 5/Ikelite house.
Nikon F3/F4. Lens from 10 to 400mm

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Posted: 18 July 2007 12:59 PM  [Ignore]  [ # 2]
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Manta Ray
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Hi Jsceen,

it sound to me as if you´re not planning to go pro, at least for the foreseeable future, so this might help you a little, but it´s just my opinion of course.

Pretty much any (compact) camera housing can be equipped with a strobe. The only thing needed for this is a screw hole at the bottom of the housing, where basically a metal plate will be attached which carries the arm and the strobe. The connection to the housing in order to trigger the strobe is attached via a simple glasfiber (? not sure this word exists in english) optic cable which is basically glued to the housing (externally) in front of the internal camera strobe. This usually work fine for the amateur level. If you´re planning to go more sophisticated, you should buy a housing with a connection to the inside of the housing (e.g. if planninng to use Ikelite strobes and TTL-functions, which you usually do not need especially when you´re taking pictures mainly for private use).
Also instead of buying a strobe right away, you should consider buying a MagicFilter (see posts / threads in this forum). Especially for you as a beginner in uw-photography this should do the trick for a while and costs only a fraction of a strobe. Also you should consider, that the camera only stays compact, if you do not use a strobe. As soon as you attach a strobe the thing becomes more difficult to handle and diving becomes a different story wink
As for the 12 MP: For “normal” sizes up to about 1 regular page printouts really anything with 5 MP does the job perfectly fine, so if you´re not planning on printing posters and the like you should not make this your main criteria.

RAW: This really depends on your wish to spend time in front of your computer in order to maximise your results. Usually, if you have a good picture, a few slight adjustments, which you can easily do with almost any software on the .jpg file will do. RAW files will help you, in case you had slightly wrong settings on your camera, since the file is stored uncompressed (without the internal camera adjustments). If you get bad pictures the RAW will not help you. So, if you are willing to spend a few hours in front of your PC in order to get the most out of your pics you will need RAW, otherwise this is also not really of too much importance for you. Since the raw-file is about 5-10 times the size of a .jpg it also creates the neccessity for faster and larger (=more costly) storage devices.

So, I hope this helps a little.
Maybe we could provide some more help, if you specify more precisely what you intend to do with your camera under water (e.g. where do you dive, what do you want the pictures for, what kind of motives are you interested in the most, What´s your budget for the whole equipment etc.)

Regards, Marc


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“You can´t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.” (Mark Twain)

Sony DSC-P12 + Sony MPK-PHA + Epoque ES150-DS / alt. Magic Filter
Sony A100 + DT 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 + 100mm F2,8 Macro + Ikelite DS125 (no Housing for the A100, yet, again)

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Posted: 18 July 2007 02:18 PM  [Ignore]  [ # 3]
Flotsam (Treibgut)
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Thank you very much.  The both of you have really helped me out.  Is it safe to say the the W200 is not a bad camera?  I heard that Sony’s had a slow or bad shutter speed.  Is this correct?  Also what is a decent shutter speed?  I guess the real question is what is the best compact camera?  I would like to spend a total of about $500. 

The word you were looking for Marc is fiber optic.  I used to install it in commercial offices for computer purposes.  I was planning on buying a filter anyways since it is simply so cheap. 

I plan to be diving in the Florida Keys.  I was born and raised in Miami and have been going to the Keys all of my life.  I moved away from Florida a few years ago but I will be back very soon and am planning my get back to life days.

Once again, Thak you very much for all of your help!


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Posted: 18 July 2007 06:14 PM  [Ignore]  [ # 4]
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Manta Ray
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Hi again,

it´s always difficult to tell what is a “good” camera, some are more, some are less suited. I don´t know the shutter speed of your model, but I also use a Sony (DSC-P12) and I think your´s is newer than mine, so I suppose this should be less of a problem for you than for me and I get along fine with it.

I don´t know if you have found the function on digideep, but there is a huge section on Equipment (found on the start page) and there is supposed to be a housing (around 200 bucks) from Sony itself for your model, so you should check that out if you´re okay with your camera.

Since you plan on diving in Florida (good weather, pretty clear waters), I think you should be able to get pretty good results even without a strobe just by using the filter and manual white balance on your camera.

Regards, Marc


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“You can´t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.” (Mark Twain)

Sony DSC-P12 + Sony MPK-PHA + Epoque ES150-DS / alt. Magic Filter
Sony A100 + DT 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 + 100mm F2,8 Macro + Ikelite DS125 (no Housing for the A100, yet, again)

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Posted: 18 July 2007 06:26 PM  [Ignore]  [ # 5]
Flotsam (Treibgut)
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Nope, There is no housing for my current camera.  That is the only reason that I will be upgrading.  Since I am upgrading, I plan to buy the best I possibly can so I don’t have to worry about this for a while.

Once again, thanks alot!


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Posted: 22 July 2007 01:57 AM  [Ignore]  [ # 6]
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Napoleon Wrasse
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Hi there.

I’ve used a few different types of compact cameras underwater, including Sony, Canon, and Olympus cameras.

I agree with previous posters that 12Mpx really isn’t necessary unless you want to enlarge your pictures to A3 or bigger.  You would probably be better off aiming lower down the Mpx range and saving a few dollars to be spent on other features.

There are a few aspects of compact cameras that I think generates a differential between good for u/w use, and not so good:
- a large, bright LCD screen (although it does need to deliver a quality image - if the screen looks fuzzy and indistinct in the shop, its not going to get any better underwater!)

- being able to access all the controls on your camera whilst it is in the housing.  I know some recent sony cameras have settings like macro controlled via a touch screen lcd.  Whilst this is great on land, the housings don’t allow you to access any touch screen settings underwater, so you are forced to choose whether you are shooting macro or not before you jump in the water.  Very limiting, so in choosing your camera, check that the housing that goes with it allows you to access all controls.  Personally I would avoid touch screen controls unless there are limited to playback options only.

- the lens.  Of course, the lens is a critical factor for all cameras, but underwater, where light is less abundant than above, the lens can be even more important.  Compact cameras by their very size have to sacrifice lens size; by that I mean the physical size of the lens.  A larger diameter lens will let in more light than a smaller diameter lens.  Some of the compacts (especially Sony) have very small diameter lenses, and I question how good some of those would be underwater. Bear in mind that as the lens diameter increases, the optics of the glass also has to improve, otherwise image quality degrades, irrespective of how much light the lens ‘gathers’.

- wide angle.  Underwater, the magnification of the water means that you typically want as wide an angle lens as possible (all other things being equal!).  Most compacts have a ‘35mm equivalent’ wide angle of 35mm.  This is OK, but if you can get a wider angle lens (28mm is about the best I have seen in any compact), then there is arguably benefit in doing so.  Unfortunately, very few compacts offer this.  You can however, get wide angle adapters for many underwater housings (additional lenses that attach to the front of the housing), and these can give you really wide angle set ups.

- shutter lag.  I note some discussion on shutter speed, which I assume actually refers to shutter lag, which is the delay between pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the shot.  Current compacts are generally better than older compacts in this area.  Underwater, I find that if you pre-focus the camera by ‘half pressing’ the shutter button, and then wait for your scene to be as you want, shutter lag is all but eliminated, and all compacts perform pretty much the same.  If you don’t pre-focus, then there is some variability in the performance of different cameras, but i think all of them will still be too slow to catch that fish or turtle or shark as it swims past you!

- battery life.  You want your camera to last the length of one dive at the very least, if not two.  It’s hard to get comparitive specifications on the different cameras, but there are some general points:  some current Canon Powershots use 2 AA batteries, whilst a small number use 4 AAs.  Logically, the 4 AA cameras are going to have a better endurance, as in general, the cameras all do the same things with battery power - supply a screen, move the lens for autofocus, power the ‘brain’ of the camera which determines exposure, takes the photo and writes it to the card.

- manual exposure control.  From what you have said, I think this may not be too important for you, but if you get the u/w photography bug, I think you might find that you start to augment your point and shoot approach with the desire to fiddle with a few settings.  For this reason, I suggest that you look for a camera that at least allows you to adjust the exposure (brighten or darken the picture).  Most compacts do this, but there are a few that don’t.  Other controls that are very useful underwater are the ability to turn the flash off or force it to be ‘always on’, a macro focus mode, and a manual focus mode.

- white balance.  Quite a few compacts have an underwater white balance pre-set, and some allow you to do a manual or custom white balance, which in tandem with your magic filter would be a handy feature to have.

- housing considerations.  Many of the compact camera housings from the camera manufactures end up postively bouyant underwater, which I personally find to be quite annoying, because the camera either floats up from the wrist strap, or from a lanyard (I use a lanyard to attach my camera to my BCD), and murphy’s law dictates that the camera will always float around infront of your face when this happens.  Thus I prefer a slightly negatively bouyant rig which tidily keeps out of the way when not in use (beware dragging it over the reef though!).  Of course you can bolt on small weights to bouyant housings to resolve this, but setting this up is a drag.  Canon housings are particularly prone to bouyancy in my experience, Sony less so, and Olympus almost always are negatively bouyant.

Anyway, I hope that at least some of that is helpful.

good luck!


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Graham
http://www.fishonfilm.co.nz

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Posted: 05 February 2008 10:28 AM  [Ignore]  [ # 7]
Flotsam (Treibgut)
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Graeme - Fish on Film - you’re posting was one of the most useful that I have found in the last month of searching through hundreds of posts to get recommendations for a point and shoot camera for scuba diving.  Like the original poster I have no idea what I’m doing and I want to get a camera that I’m not disappointed in on my first dive.

thanks very much,
scubat


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Posted: 06 February 2008 08:36 AM  [Ignore]  [ # 8]
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Napoleon Wrasse
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Thanks for your feedback scubat.  Always nice to know my efforts are appreciated!  Good luck with your camera choice, and getting into underwater photography.  If you have any questions now or in the future, you can do alot worse than post them here.  There’s alot of helpful people here on this forum.  If you haven’t discovered wetpixel (http://www.wetpixel.com) then I can recommend you have a look there too.  Wetpixel does tend to be dominated by people operating in the ‘higher echelons’ of uw photography, however, there’s alot of good information relevant to ordinary mortals, especially in the forums dedicated to compact cameras.

cheers


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Graham
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