Hi, i’m looking to upgrade my UW camera to a Canon DSLR (XTi) and need some advice. I currently have an Ikelite housing for an Olympus SP-350, but much to my disappointment found that the camera is absolutely terrible underwater. I was unable to see the LCD underwater even at low depths, forcing me to just guess at where my subject was. And then, when I was able to finally focus on the object (which took several moments with the autofocus), the fish was either gone, partially gone, or unbearably blurry.

Before I splurge on a better camera setup, can anyone tell me if the Canon will have the same problems? I know I can’t use the LCD on that camera, but I’m not sure if I will be able to see through the viewfinder underwater. Thanks, I’d appreciate any advice you can give me!

linzhoo2u - 26 February 2008 04:28 PM

Hi, i’m looking to upgrade my UW camera to a Canon DSLR (XTi) and need some advice. I currently have an Ikelite housing for an Olympus SP-350, but much to my disappointment found that the camera is absolutely terrible underwater. I was unable to see the LCD underwater even at low depths, forcing me to just guess at where my subject was. And then, when I was able to finally focus on the object (which took several moments with the autofocus), the fish was either gone, partially gone, or unbearably blurry.

Before I splurge on a better camera setup, can anyone tell me if the Canon will have the same problems? I know I can’t use the LCD on that camera, but I’m not sure if I will be able to see through the viewfinder underwater. Thanks, I’d appreciate any advice you can give me!

Just an FYI the xTI has been replaced with the xSI so you may want to hold off untill the xTI ships (should be in the next month or two) and housings come out for it.  It has some nice upgrades, including using the LCD to shoot. Though using the LCD in the dSLR may not be quite as good as using the view finder, it will be an option. Though some people have said that the LCD view is limited to certain things underwater, some of the newer dSLRs spec out (at least) as having good shutter lag (meaning the Canon 40D with the LCD use specs out at being quicker than my 30D through the viewfinder.) Like I said seems practically there are some limits, but I think it would be good to have.  (Also the dSLR in LCD mode should focus alot quicker than the Oly 350 )

As to housings, depending on the housing, they come with viewfinders that may magnify the viewfinder a bit or you can get an accessory.  Ikelite I beleive has a view finder that magnifies things a bit, while others require extra.  For instance on my Aquatica I can get a viewfinder (and probably will) to make it a bit easier to shoot since underwater it can be difficult (with any housing) to see until you get used to it ... well maybe not real difficult but not as nice and easy as having some of these other things that are out there.  I got the hang of it with the Aquatica fairly quickly and how to position it, but the lure of the other toys is tempting

Another perspective:

Have you identified what was causing your problems with the Oly SP-350?  Why couldn’t you see the LCD screen?  I believe that the SP-350 is used by a fair few u/w photographers, who presumably have either found ways around the problems you have, or didn’t have those problems.

It seems a bit odd to me that you couldn’t see the LCD screen:  was the screen too small, not bright enough, not sharp enough?  If the screen was too small, or not sharp enough, then perhaps another camera with a larger/sharper screen would suit you better.  If it wasn’t bright enough, then perhaps there is brightness setting you can adjust, or perhaps you could attach some sort of shade to the housing to prevent glare from ambient light.  In any case, if brightness was the issue, I would have thought that you would have experienced similar problems topside as well, as there is generally alot more ambient light topside than underwater.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but how is your eyesight?  Perhaps your eyes are having difficulty focussing on near objects underwater, and if so, perhaps a mask with a prescription lens might help.

Point and Shoot cameras are notorious for slow autofocus, and dSLRs are much better in this regard.  However, I have encountered alot of u/w photographers using Point and Shoot cameras who do not use the pre-focus feature (i.e. half press the shutter button until the camera achieves a focus lock on the subject, then complete the button press to take the photo).  Pre-focus gives you a chance to check that the camera does actually achieve a focus, and also what it has focussed on.  If you just press the shutter button all the way, the camera will try to focus for a time, and then if it can’t get a focus lock, will just shoot at some (effectively) random focus point, which typically results in blurred images.

I don’t want to put you off getting a dSLR rig - in most ways they are superior to Point and shoot rigs, however, I think the problems you describe with your camera may have solutions in adopting a different usage pattern, and also I’m not sure that you will find a dSLR viewfinder easier to use than an LCD screen (of course, as Drew mentions, the Canon 450D / XSi has liveview, so you could use the LCD screen to compose your shots on this dSLR, although there are some limitations that apply, as Drew explains.)

Hope that helps..

Hi Linzhoo2u
The Olympus SP350 when set in Manual Exposure Mode, shows the actual exposure on the LCD screen. So if your aperture is say at F8 (for maximum depth of focus), shutter speed 1/160th (to freeze motion and give dark background in the image), ISO at 50 or 100, then you will see an almost black screen. Because these exposure settings without strobe would give you an underexposed image. Strobe is the main exposure at these settings, so without the strobe firing (prior to the photo being taken) there is virtually no exposure showing on the LCD.
You could try using the camera in one of its Auto modes, but it won’t record images as well as it does in manual, as the camera will select slow shutter speeds (1/30 or slower), due to the general lack of light underwater, plus it will probably default to a mid-range Aperture like F4.0, which will give you less depth of focus..... But you will see the image before you take the shots!!!  However at further distances like 60cms (2 feet), using say F4.5 at 1/100th, ISO 100 in relatively well-lit waters, you do get a reasonable view of the subject on the LCD.
I have had some pretty disappointed students who have purchased this camera, to find in manual it is almost impossible to see your subject in macro settings.
This is a ‘feature’ of the Olympus SP350 and some other late model Compact Cameras in Manual Mode. It was not a feature of any of the earlier Olympus Compacts (5050/5060/7070/8080).
It is also not a feature of any DSLR’s, as the viewfinder in these cameras (even in manual) are looking through the lens at its widest aperature, until just as the shutter is fully depressed, when the lens will close down to the selected aperture and expose the image. Hence you will see a bright image in the viewfinder up until that very brief moment when the camera shutter opens.
Hope this helps explain?

I have a Canon Rebel XTI/ 400d.

Please do not get the Sea and sea Housing DX-400d.

I have this housing and it has so many limitations. No Delete Button, No Menu button, No Zoom or Zoom Out Button.

If you want I can post the photos of my housing.

I already placed a deposit on my housing before I even saw it. I had no choice but to get it from my supplier.

I agree with our fellow member, wait for the Canon 450d with Liveview. It has faster focusing and the Liveview will be very help for super macro.

tankado - 27 February 2008 01:06 PM

If you want I can post the photos of my housing.

Hi Tankado, I think many users would be thankful for that. Please go ahead.

Nx-Compact Focusing Port - is what I use for my 100mm macro lens.

Combined with a Focusing Ring - you can focus - however, you can not switch to Manual or AF from the port.

I find it very useful to switch to MF when dealing with very tiny Macro subjects.

I attached two rear views of the Sea and Sea DX400 housing.

As you can see all the buttons for the Menu, Delete, Zoom, Zoom Out, and etc are missing.

Even with this limitations I’ve still been able to take very good shots with the Sea and Sea housing. It was more difficult without all the options.

I hope this many help the next person make a more inform judgment.

Cheers
Jeff

Thanks everyone for your replies. I’m not sure why I’m not able to see the LCD screen while in live view. It seems like there is so much glare on the screen (even deep under water) that it is impossible to see what I am taking a picture of. It is almost the same feeling when you are above water and unable to see the screen in bright light. I will look into fashioning a screen to shield out as much light as possible. Maybe I can adjust the camera as well to produce a brighter image while underwater. As far as the focusing goes, I think what confuses the camera at times is that when I am trying to focus on a single fish that is in front of the coral reef, even if I press the shutter button down completely, the camera will refuse to take the picture as it constantly tries to figure out what it is supposed to focus on (even when using a single Ikelite DS50 strobe). The only really sharp pictures I was able to take where that of a sea turtle swimming against a solid blue background. This is why I am frustrated with the camera. I would need to use manual focus for those “busy” scenes but can’t see the screen well enough to know if I have it in focus.

For those that already have an Ikelite Canon DSLR housing, is it just as difficult to see through the viewfinder?

Thanks again so much for all of your help!

If it has trouble foccusing it also can be light.  In other words in darker/deeper waters there may not be enough light for focus to be obtained (though it sounds like more than that in your case?) Anyway a focus light *may* be of help.  And if you do get a focus light andd it does not help, you can always use it down the road on another system.  At some point you will want one on some dive somewhere (But you do not have to get one immediately of course.)

even if I press the shutter button down completely, the camera will refuse to take the picture as it constantly tries to figure out what it is supposed to focus on (even when using a single Ikelite DS50 strobe).

Just to add to Drew’s suggestion of using a focus light, it appears from your comment that you have confused strobe with focus lighting.  A strobe will only fire when the shutter fires, i.e. after focussing.  Whilst most point and shoot cameras do use a pre-flash before the shutter opens, the pre-flash is usually for the camera to work out the exposure, not the focus, which will have already happened.  Usually, any focus assist is achieved with a light that is steadily on for a second or so, rather than a brief strobe flash.  Your DS50 strobe ignores the camera’s pre-flash (and any focus assist as well), so it only triggers when the picture is actually being taken, i.e. at the same time as the camera’s shutter is opening.

The bottom line here is that the D50 strobe will not help with the camera focussing.  The only benefit from the external strobe in terms of focus is that having the extra light enables you to use a smaller aperture, which gives you more depth of field.

The situation of the fish in front of the coral background is (obviously!) not unusual underwater, and I haven’t yet used a point and shoot that had any notable difficulty achieving focus in this sort of situation.  In fact, I have had more difficulties when shooting isolated fish against an open water background than when shooting against a reef background.

Anyway, if the camera is struggling to focus due to low light, a focus light should help..

good luck!

Ah, I think you’re right about the focus light. I am new to UW photography, and had no idea about the focus light. Now it makes perfect sense why the point and shoot is not focusing.

I think I will give that a try on my next dive before upgrading my cam. I still think Canon makes excellent cameras, but I will miss the capability to also shoot videos…

Thanks everyone, your advice has been invaluable!

linzhoo2u - 02 March 2008 01:33 PM

I think I will give that a try on my next dive before upgrading my cam. I still think Canon makes excellent cameras, but I will miss the capability to also shoot videos…

For a long time the dSLRs did not have LCD view, so who knows, maybe video one day Looking forward to seeing how the focus light works out for you.